Review ·

I was 7 years old when Guns N’ Roses released The Spaghetti Incident? in 1993. That statement is not meant to draw ageist attention to people who are old enough to have purchased the album -- 15 years is just a long-ass time to wait for a band to put out an album. A whole generation of kids know of Axl Rose as a concept (as in, the last hero of the hair-metal era) but not as an actual person.


So, how exactly are we supposed to take Chinese Democracy? It’s been a punch line for roughly 10 years (as in, China will actually be a democracy before Chinese Democracy comes out), it may go down as the most expensive album ever made (estimated at $13 million at least), and it has been subjected to more hype than every indie-rock album since 2002, combined. At this point, the music seems secondary to the fact that the album actually exists.


But when you cut through all the back story, the tales of studio breakdowns, the hype, the Dr. Pepper, the sacking of original members and lesser replacements who wear buckets as hats, Chinese Democracy has but one message. And that message is:  “Ha. I can’t believe I tricked you into being excited for this shit. Didn’t you listen to Use Your Illusion? I became the messianic artist I always felt I was on that one, and made that album into terrible a mess, but you still couldn’t wait for this. I clearly hate you.”


The only instrument that matters when talking about a Guns N’ Roses album is guitar, and luckily there’s a bunch of them on the album. Chinese Democracy is of a type of rock album they don’t make anymore -- one singularly devoted to guitar heroics. They guitars are huge sounding, layered sometimes four or five parts deep (and probably more). First single “Shackler’s Revenge” is the album’s marginal highlight: It builds around ripsaw guitars that ascends to an anthemic solo. Axl and company always had a knack for creating a massive atmosphere (“November Rain,” anyone?), but “Shackler’s” is the only time here that skill is used to good effect.


Chinese Democracy plays like a Frankstein’s monster mash-up of the disparate points that made Guns N’ Roses alluring in the late ‘80s: big, dumb ballads, rip-roaring guitar epics, and divisive lyrics. But Rose is no longer content to spread those charms over the course of 10 tracks. He tries to shoehorn all of those elements into every song, making the album feel like many warmed-over concepts rolled up in one terrible-tasting confection (I would liken it to a deep-fried Twinkie with a corndog in the middle).


“Street of Dreams” is the easiest example. It opens with a tender piano line and Axl’s warbling vocals (which sound vaguely Auto-Tuned) and explodes into a sing-along moment before collapsing back in on itself. It’s the kind of moment a 1991 Guns would have turned into a shirt-removing anthem for the ladies, but it just falls flat when it’s supposed to connect. “If the World” is nearly as tepid. It rides a slithering guitar line to a dumb guitar solo that sounds lifted from Toys in the Attic before hitting a searching chorus from Rose.


The album doesn’t get any worse than the four horseman of “There Was a Time” (a mash-up between a faux-important orchestral arrangement and a seesawing, clench-fisted chorus), “Catcher in the Rye” (a self-absorbed, sub-Elton John ballad), “Scraped” (which defines how your ears will feel after the opening vocal lines), and “Riad N’ the Bedouins” (which seems like it is about the Middle East but seems mostly to be about making Chinese Democracy, with Rose shrieking a lot about his frustrations). Everything sounds huge, but it also feels so neutered, flat and directionless.   


There are some moderately enjoyable bits on the album -- the glittery guitars on “Sorry,” “Shackler’s” schizophrenic verses, the syncopated drumming on “Prostitute,” the downtrodden feel of “Madagascar.” But there is no truly transcendent moment on Chinese Democracy. Just snippets of decent music mixed in with an astounding amount of over-produced refuse.


Because of the nature of its prolonged delivery and the reams of press connected to it, it’s impossible to view Chinese Democracy as an insular piece of art. But the fact that it took 15 years for the thing to hit shelves makes it painfully clear how bad Chinese Democracy is: Even if it came out in 1996, it would still be self-absorbed, turgid, over-produced and soulless.






  • Chinese Democracy
  • Shackler's Revenge
  • Better
  • Street of Dreams
  • If the World
  • There Was a Time
  • Catcher N' the Rye
  • Scraped
  • Riad N' the Bedouins
  • Sorry
  • I.R.S.
  • Madagascar
  • This I Love
  • Prostitute

A whole world of hard rock bands have come and gone in the time since Guns N' Roses started working on their new album, Chinese Democracy, in 1994 (Where have you gone Creed, Limp Bizkit, Bush, Papa Roach, P.O.D., and Velvet Revolver?). But despite all odds (and a reported recording budget of well over $10 million), Chinese Democracy will finally see an official release on November 23 (a Sunday) via an exclusive deal with Best Buy.

The recording sessions that launched Chinese Democracy in 1994 led to the dissolution of the rest of the original line-up (Slash and Duff McKagan all left during the early sessions), and the band's line-up has remained in flux ever since, with Axl Rose being the only consistent member since 1996. It's not clear precisely who's playing guitar on much of Chinese Democracy, but the likes of Buckethead, Tommy Stinson (formerly of the Replacements), and many more have been linked to Guns N' Roses over the course of the sessions.

That Chinese Democracy would ever even see the light of day began to be a running joke, as it became uncertain if Axl Rose was even working on it anymore. Then, in 2006, Rose began talking about the album in public, and promised it would be out. The same thing happened in 2007. And then, in 2008, a pre-release single, "Shackler's Revenge," was released through Rock Band 2, and Best Buy bought the exclusive rights to the album.

Whether or not this means that there will be another Guns N' Roses album in the future is questionable, but then again, that Chinese Democracy would ever get released seemed impossible until now.

School of Seven Bells - Alpinisms Lil Wayne Dedication 3

I've heard 9 songs a couple a times. Every time it gets better. The sound is still guns. Axl's voice sounds incredible.


Well i just hope this album if released is better then their last that was a horrible album


I mean welcome to the 21st century !'8^-@/|:
America elects a BLACK Man president !
The BIGGEST corporation in the U.S. (GM) is going to be bought out by Chinese Company originally founded by Mao Zedong !
And Axl Rose gets Chinese Democracy finished and released !

"These are the days of wonders and miracles ..."
"Strange days have tracked us down ..."


Dude are you serious??

Every review I've read completely praises the album. And I think it's totally warranted. Though not the masterpiece Axel promised, it does deliver trademark Guns 'N Roses updated for today's landscape. A great ROCK album. It is definitely one of the best releases of the year.


Dude, I am totally serious. This one is awful.

/site_media/uploads/images/users/thestorfer/1202393jpeg.jpeg andross

Not sure what your reviewer has been smoking, but the album is definitely worthy of a higher rating than what you've given it. Taking into consideration that two of the most well-respected music reviewers of our generation, (RS's David Fricke and Chuck Klosterman) both gave Chinese Democracy stellar reviews, I don't think I'm going to take your word on any review, past, present or future.

The Grinch

That was a totally disingenuous review, not to mention it was incredibly lazy as well. My guess is that you read a dozen other reviews without actually listening to the album, then you cobbled together some vague hipster-ese into a negative review for the hell of it. Hey, it ain't a classic by any means, but it sure is a hell of a lot better than you've pretended it is. Axl's a dolt, no gettin' around that, but when you stoop to substituting your preconceptions about the artist and the album in place of an actual album review, you're doing yourself and your readers a disservice. Please try harder next time.
An accurate score for this album falls into the 6 1/2 to 7 category.


Supposedly neutral attacks about accuracy aside, this album is bad. Awful. Terrible. I mean, the LEVELS on some of the tracks are completely different. It's like it wasn't even mastered properly. For the amount of time and money spent on this, there's simply no excuse for a product of this quality.
You also have to take into account that this is supposed to be an "album" in the most traditional, listen front-to-back way. Not a collection of singles. Is there's some sort of attention to sequencing here? For the life of me, I can't find it. It sounds like Axl set Winamp to random.
The rock on this album is sincere in an era where it's become cliché. The production value is terrible when production is increasingly viewed as a creative art. Plus the songs are boring and somewhat embarrassing.
This album fails. It fails to excite me. It fails to impress me. It fails to justify the time and money spent. It's just terrible, a waste, and a shame.
I'm going to go listen to Appetite.

/site_media/uploads/images/users/abomunist/221969492_5987f15d18.jpg abomunist

I'm not ready to all this album great. But I enjoy it a ton. It's entertaining as hell. And every track has at least 15 seconds of something that's really brilliant. I've been listening when I go to the gym and it serves it's purpose there. I don't really get from the review why this album is bad though. I mean, we're talking about Guns N' Roses...

/site_media/uploads/images/users/joydivided/charly.jpg joydivided

to "call"

/site_media/uploads/images/users/joydivided/charly.jpg joydivided

I haven't heard the album yet, so I'll hold off on saying whether or not I think this review is accurate. But I have heard "Shackler's Revenge" - a song the reviewer called a highlight, and I thought it was wretched.

What I will say beyond that, however, is that saying just because David Fricke or Closterman liked it it must be great is total nonsense. I mean Rolling Stone? Really? Yeah Fricke can write and he earned his status, but he and Rolling Stone give the most tepid, non-critical reviews on the market these days. They've given so many 3-ish star reviews (and for that matter 5 star ones to high profile stuff from big established acts) over recent years that I no longer view their music reviews with any real reverence or respect.

I definitely would like to listen to the album just to give it a fair shake, and there is even a part of me that still hopes it will be some crazy misanthropic masterpiece, but I really doubt it. Axl was talented and he has considerable talent at the helm on this album (Buckethead is a monster, forget the chicken bucket), but what little I've heard and read doesn't inspire confidence that anything worth a damn is done with that talent.

At least I don't like Dr. Pepper.


I usually don't mind your reviews Andrew, and I do like your taste in music (Los Campesinos, TV on the Radio) but this review just stinks of bias and closed mindedness. I think the indy scene has made you a little too jaded. Really though, you mention most of the songs on the album, but the one song that is an absolute kill track you omit (Better).

You also seem to know nothing on the topic of "guitar heroics" you boast as GnRs' main selling point. You state that you couldn't tell the difference between the guitar work of Buckethead, Finck, and Thal, then you so boldly dismiss "There was a time" which has one of the best guitar solos in rock since Use Your Illusions. What this boils down to is, you really don't know much about the music, so it's kind of understandable that you don't really get this album.

I mean I'm not saying this album is a masterpiece or anything. I like it, its over indulgent rock that takes itself a little too seriously, but its a decent enough album with some killer solos and it takes chances that you don't see much mainstream music taking these days. To rate this album a 35 is absolutely atrocious. Lets put this in perspective, easy music like Nickelback is a 35, equally crappy Hinder is a 35. Chinese Democracy is NOT a 35. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a ploy to add some hits to the little google ads you guys got going on here under this comment box. I mean it is going to be one of the most talked about albums of the year, what better way to get your name out there.

Shameful, Andrew. Very disappointed in you.


Dude, your review is horrible and stupid !!!

While reviewing an album stick to the music, not to what band or the frontman did !!

Irrespective of the fact if Axl crapped in front of your house, his album deserves a fair review. And not a stupid judgment by a 24 yr old, crying for the fact that Axl crapped in your doorway.

This review is foolish and immature and stupid.

Review music and not what goes on in the artists personal life !!!!

And get a life!!!

Goutham Nanda

Axl didn't crap in front of my house! He crapped in my bed when I was asleep!!!!!

/site_media/uploads/images/users/thestorfer/1202393jpeg.jpeg andross

This album is great. The indie glasses need to go, buddy. This reviewer probably masturbates to the Decemberists and Ponytail.


This guy likes Interpol! haha!

Jeff Johnny

Sadly a lot of people still think that Axl rose is the rock messiah . But this album is pure irrefutable evidence that Guns N Roses are like the great beasts of history an animal whose time has passed. No its not worth waiting 10+ years but to all those that still need the gnr style fix go and listen a7x and keep on rocking.


What a Loser ! Seriously step back and listen to the piece for what it is. Its Average to Great depending on who you are. To give it a well below average shows some kind of fanboy bias. You should not be a reviewer with such preconceived judgments.


I doubt he masturbates to the Decemberists and Ponytail, they're not attractive in the least. Now those chicks from Tokyo Hotel...

/site_media/uploads/images/users/theSchoenrock/luckyjpg.jpg theSchoenrock

I like this album, and see how it has qualities that are both good and bad. What struck me enough about this review to comment, though, was your description of it as "soulless." Overproduced, out of touch, indulgent? Sure. But "soulless"? The raw emotion is clearly present in these songs and the way they are sung, and no album a man was willing to risk his reputation to release and to invest thirteen years and thirteen million dollars into is an album without some soul. One may ridicule Axl for being corny or self-important, but one can't deny that he poured his guts into this. If anything, I think that is the major strength of this album--the best rock album ever made it is not, but it is a refreshing dose of musical sincerity, passion, and ambition in a scene where what is trendy is the ironic self-awareness and "too cool to care" attitude that define indie music hipsterism.


Seven years old when The Spaghetti Incident came out?? A year old when Appetite for Destruction came out??

Never send a boy to do a man's work.


Again !!! Why is everyone crying about 13 years !!

13 Years or 30 Years later.... Music is music... Review it for the sake of music... Not for Axl or what he did for 13 Years !!!!!!

If B.B. King or Led Zep releases and album 15 years later no one will cry !!! But come on this is Axl !!! So people must crib !!!

This record rocks .. Axl you rock .. And the musicians on this record are technically way better than old Guns.. Not meant to take any credit of them ... I sure would wait to see the old guns together again..

But that shouldn't imply this is abad album ..

Again .. this album rocks !!!! Do go and buy a copy.

Goutham Nanda

If an indie reviewer doesn't like this record, than that's the point -- much the way the old punk rockers could net get into progressive. If the indie community in general is not getting this CD, then maybe G N' R has an appeal that's limited to their old fans.

There are, in fact, older non-indie bands and artists that get through to today's generation (i.e. the Beach Boys, Sly Stone, Flying Burrito Brothers, even Zappa). G N' R does not look like one of them.

/site_media/uploads/images/users/tsclafan/moi image.jpg tonys

Shocking review, talk about how long it took to make without giving any clear critical references to every track. The real respected critics are treating this just as a record, not bashing on about how long it took to take and suddenly they give it good scores based on the music not other bulls=== that a crap unknown reviewer can come up with. Get In The Ring. Amazing Lyrics/Guitar Work/No Fillers/Deep Feel....Masterpeice.


The Chinese Democracy album is interesting, diverse, eclectic, satisfying, overwrought and extremely, extremely well mixed.

I sat typing on my computer with the TV on while I previewed the songs on Myspace. within a minute I was sitting with the TV off holding my small headphones against my ears. I bought the CD as soon as I was able. Axl has matured and proven himself a true artist. I'm calling it adult contemporary Metal. I was a fan then was disappointed by the MTV appearence. I feared the release would smash my hopes for Axl to retain his musical dignity.
I LOVE the CD.
Thank you Axl!


It took Elgart & numerous classical musicians
14 yrs & more to complete a symphony.
come on..this album is a masterpiece.

Why are people angry he used the GNR name?
He OWNS the name. It was his band!


I give it the highest rating.

Only true genius talents create art in
10-20 yrs.

Axl owns the GNR name.Of course use it. It was
his band.

This will become a classic masterpiece


It's visceral & beautiful & painful & angry
and romantic. Take note musicians!!!
As much as I hated Axl for 17 yrs..I must admit,
I'm proud of him.

good work schmo & other brilliant talent on this album.


Gabriella Kantor

The album is brilliant. The reviewer is a t*** and is grossly underqualified to comment on anything even loosely pertaining to the legacy of the planet's all-time greatest rock band.


Up & coming musicians (or existing ones)
take note! This is true art.
Like all valuable people & things in life,
it takes time to realize how great they/it are.
Give it a few listens & I promise you, it'll get into your
veins like it did w/me.
Guitar from Buckethead & others make Slash look
dated.Chris Pitman is great, track #5 If the World's Spanish guitar is so beautiful.
Axl's voice is...well...the best.
I was so suprised what a romantic he is with those lyrics.
Esp. "This I Love" track #13
I was angry w/Axl from 17 yrs ago but now I must admit I'm proud of him.
good work scmuck,

Right Next Door to Hell

Give yourself a plus.
Please listen w/good headphones or a good
sound tube, etc, sound sucks.
With my headphones, I hear the intricate genius
sounds & words I'd miss.
Music needs respect. Invest.Otherwise you shortchange yourseves.
Chinese Democracy is getting into my soul.
I can't stop listening to it from when I powerwalk to
put on my headphones when I sit at my PC.
I was pleasantly suprised it was not rehash of old GNR
Only Appetite was real for me. UYI 1 # 2 were bloated & you
could tell there was band turmoil.
In Appetite the young turks were on the same page.
I hate that drummer Matt Sorum. To me, it was always Adler,
Izzy...since was a Slash solo scene.

Shoreham Towers

it's amazing.

thanks ALL the players involved
including maestro Rose


I know that guns n roses is more than just axl, slash, and duff, matt sorum and steven adler. It was the dream of a bunch of guys that believed in something grand. keep the dreams of every midwestern and more or less a lot of of beautiful people that love art that love the idea idea 0f bettering oneself. I want to hold unto a beautiful angry voice that always has the hand of God on it the way that Axl has if you listen you will find some truth. god bless you ,warren weston Valhalla


DUDE, Forget the this is GNR (well the R at least). This is not suited for everyone. This may be a throwback to hairmetal, mullets, power ballads, and excess but knowing where it came from it just sounds right. It's like complaining about overt sexual innuendos on an AC/DC album. This is what GNR sounds like, this is Axl. To my ears it sounds damn fine.

Chinese Democrat #1,300,000,001

My youth came and went, I got married had a beautiful son. I moved on from my angry youth of appetie and use your illusion but occasionally would hear it may be released. with out anything? I went to the show in Philly, axl didnt show (watchd Dallas/Lakers game? and shot the H? thats the rumor) oh well its never gonna happen I though.......then it comes out I get it the first so F'n curious..i listen the first song, second by the third i had goosbumps and was blown away. I cant comprehend how good it is. Cant believe Im saying it..but thank you for taking your time Axl its brilliant!!!


What a work of art! We can't stop listening to it.
It's got all the emotions I have inside.

I'm buying at least 10 for Xmas presents (vinyl too
for my DJ buds)
I wake up & crank it..I go to sleep & the last thing I do is turn off my stereo.I drive in my car & I play it.
wtf? Chinese Demovracy has taken over my life since Nov 24th.
thanks all the briliant musicians & to you, Axl.

Gaby's sister

i just want to state that this reviewer (?) is an idiot. why don't you go hear interpol and that sh*t? if you like pseudo-crap, be my guest. axl doesn't give a fu*k about you or about me, if he takes 13 or 40 years to make an album, it is his choice. and you know what? i couldn't care less, he could take 70 years and i would not lose my sleep over it. truth is this album is very very good, i don't care how much time it took, and it's none of your business, as far as i'm concerned i think he could been drinkin and smokin and playing playstation, i couldn't care less. so, be a man, forget you were just a little boy, and remember no one owes you a thing, just hear it and enjoy it, if you don't like it anyway, well, go listen to music made by kids of your own age and be happy. oh, and by the way, try to get a girlfriend and a life.


First up - crap review Winistorfer. You totally missed the point: the music.

Anyway given my borderline anti-Axl state of mind when I first listened to Chinese Democracy I was very, very pleasantly surprised. It is a huge, epically proportioned beast of an album.

'Scraped' is the only song I really dislike all the way through. 'Catcher in the Rye' and 'Riad n' the bedoins' are pretty ordinary on the whole too. As for the rest they are all good, some great. Thats 11/14 tracks which is WAY more than your average album. The best songs IMO: Better, IRS, If the world, TWAT, Chinese Democracy, Sorry and This I love.

So on the whole a great album - 8.5/10. It sits just below Appetite in my affections and towers above the Use your Illusion albums, which to my ear sound way more 'overproduced' than Chinese Democracy which sounds PROduced.

Almost every review just has to mention that it took anywhere from 13 to 17 years to make. It dosn't matter how long it took, surely the final product should be reviewed in an objective manner? While the making of the record is interesting in its own right, focusing on this is misleading as the bulk of the album was ready to go as early as 2001. In addition to this I have read qutoes from Sebastian Bach, Richard Fortus and Axl himself that attest to their being multiple albums in the offing. Axl said in 2006 that there were 30 odd songs in the mix with 26 almost done (that means over 80% of another album pretty much done as far back as 2.5 years ago). Sebastian Bach has alluded to their being enough recorded material for at least 3 albums (the next one's being scheduled for release in 2010 and 2012). Finally Richard Fortus mentions that when he was brought in (a couple of years back?) that material for the 'first record' was 'already written'. In the context of the interview you can extrapolate from what he says that there is at least one more record done that he had a hand in writing. Anyway to say 17 years was spent on the recording of Chinese Democracy alone is incorrect and unnecessarily heightens expectations that, of course, can never be met. It is likely that work was only really begun in '96 and in the intervening 12 years 3 albums have been made.

I can only hope the next 2 are on par with this one. Given the choice of 2 more albums in this vein or a reformation of the old GnR I would be seriously torn. Thats how good it is.


the album is cool for me to each is own,listen to the music people,all those critics are probably britney spears fan.grow up people it will take listening skills to appreciate a good music to a bad one.try to play it over and over again and you will find it will get better and better.not as good as appetite or use you're illusion 1 and 2 ,but better than AC/DC and metallicas new album.
thanks do you're self a favor go buy one if not ask you're friends to burn you a the word man..............


All you donkeys stop taking shots at the reviewer. Don't give me that crap that 'if you're a true GN'R fan....blah blah'. I grew up on GN'R and this is not it. And before you gimme the 'it's not 87', times change...if you dare to name it GN'R it's a fair shot to expect to live up to the name.

Seriously, you consider this album not only good but brilliant!!??? you're impressed by this overproduced, directionless, way too pro-tooled and boring amount of crap? you must be the Nickelback, Britney Spears and Kanye West crowd. Where is the sleazy, reckless, raw, HONEST rock and roll? instead, Axl tryes too hard to be Elton John, Queen, NIN, you call 'innovative' ripping off 'Immigrant Song' in 'Scraped'? and opening the album with a Yes riff??

Anyway, enjoy your can of Dr. Pepper and go give your money to Axl since obviously you don't deserve better after waiting for 14 years.

I'll go back to listen to Death Magnetic, that's real rock!!! and BTW I couldn't care less if you don't agree with me.

el beno

This album is complete rubbish? Some of you people need to clean the ear wax out, GNR this is not crap it is plain and simple.


You are so right el beno. This album is pure s**t and that's all there is to it.


Personally I would call this album an acquired taste, it won't appeal at first, and even if you try it consistently you still might not like it ...


Not everything has to be to your taste, you're free to like what you want, even if you place anti-consumerism above talent.

My problem with you is quite simple:

One does not bash Buckethead, or even consider speaking ill of him. Any one of his solos on that album is more impressive then everything Slash has ever written in the slightest.

Of course you'd be aware of this if you actually listened to the album, rather then just sitting in a dark room worshipping your fallen idols.

Lets look at Velvet Revolver, Slash's answer to New Guns. Heck, they should even have the advantage because its got more of the original members.

Are their albums better then Chinese Democracy? GOD NO!

Chinese Democracy builds a quiet, oppressive atmosphere in some tracks. In others it can capture the Power Ballad as brilliantly as was done on Illusion, and can even go toe-to-toe with Appetite. It won't win, obviously, but it can at least compete. Competing with that album, from any album released today is PHENOMENAL.


I think there is a job out there for you, with a review like that you should think seriously about searching for a new career. You little piss ant you dont deserve to have an opinion on anything let alone an album that deserves a lot more respect.


Sorry, but anyone who writes a line like


So the reviewer doesn't like the album and your response(s) is that he shouldn't be reviewing it right now because the album, 'grows on you'?
Oh Boo-fvcking-hoo!! "You didn't give Axl a chance!! You can only review the album AFTER you 'get it'." Hey why don't we make all music crits who don't like it (ie-'get it') wait 15 years before they review it. That would seem only fair to a pussy like Axl Rose.

Pissing on Buckethead

Great album, the reviewer is deaf and is not Beethoven.


Did I read this reviewer calling Use your Illusion a deliberate mess? I hope I misinterpretated that


this is a poor review; the tracks on cd go very deep and have a lot of complexity that this reviewer obviously couldn't hear or did not take enough time to listen to


seems like this reviewer only gave it the one listen.. a cardinal sin for a reviewer I would have thought. I listened to it twice when it first came out.. was horribly disapointed and felt similar to this reviewer in many ways. My disapointment was compounded by my absolute love for old gnr music and this, to me, is not anything like gnr apart from the obvious axl influence. I hadn't listened to it for 2 years till a couple of months ago i put in in the car and listened on the commute to work. This really grows on you this album.. it has complexity that your ear won't take in after just a few listens. There are faults, some crap songs but overall its a great album.. well above the average. and funnily I now think that "there was a time " is the highpoint.


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