Rap music's unlikely Scottish origins documented

December 29, 2008 3:40 p.m. by Tony Sclafani

You know a news item has tickled the public’s fancy when it ends up on Fark.com. The item in question comes from the U.K., where the Telegraph is reporting a University of New Mexico professor’s assertion that rap music has its origins in…Scotland.

Yeah, you read that right. According to American and Scottish culture expert Ferenc Szasz, rap battles are a distant spawn of the ancient Caledonian art of “flyting,” which is described as “intense verbal jousting, often laced with vulgarity.” How did flyting end up taking form in the Bronx all those years later? Szasz claims Scottish slave owners brought the tradition with them when they immigrated to the United States, and that said tradition was adopted by slaves, eventually taking the form of rap.

The prof sure did his homework. In his research he cites a poem published in New York Vanity Fair circa 1861 as "the first recorded example of the battles being used." Funnier still is the thought that Vanity Fair may have been an unwitting promoter of early rap. Take that, MTV!

10 Responses

December 30, 2008 at 1:24 p.m.

Stephon Johnson

I'm assuming that the black-american game of "playing the dozens" has it's origins in Scotland too. Rap "battles" didn't even exist until the early 80s. Hip-hop culture/rap music was already the youth culture of black & brown (and some white) NYC by that time. So is he completely disregarding the Jamaican influence of block parties that Kool Herc brought up from the islands?

Or is he getting at the notion that s--t-talking is universal? If that's the case...he's right. But in terms of hip-hop's ORIGIN coming from Scotland...negative.

December 30, 2008 at 1:39 p.m.

OMNIS

"Praise White Jesus" -Uncle Ruckus

January 5, 2009 at 1:50 p.m.

Bob

I see Stephon Johnson, and Stephen is how it is actually spelled, can't accept new information which conflicts with his preconceived notions of the world.

As for "the dozens", do you really think if video cameras had been around in the year 0, we wouldn't see videos of Roman's "cracking" on each other?

It would have been something like...

Vestri matris est sic pinguis

January 5, 2009 at 7:40 p.m.

Tiger

good grief bob, you are not seriously trying to enforce your own idea of how to spell someone elses name are you? you do realize there are as many accepted ways to spell the name "stephen" as there are variations of the name itself, not just the myopic americanized version you are familiar with? well good job trying to sound smart and hip yet ending up looking like a total d-bag... :thumbsup:

January 5, 2009 at 10:19 p.m.

Tiger

also, do i need to point out the irony in you telling someone how to spell their name then saying "can't accept new information which conflicts with his preconceived notions of the world."

no, i probably don't...

January 6, 2009 at 2:18 p.m.

DJMacIntoshFoShizzle

Why would the Scots want to lay claim to "Rap" (cRap)?

January 7, 2009 at 3:10 p.m.

Goonski

I love how prideful we black people can be about our "hip hop" culture, when clearly throughout history you can see it's nothing but parts of other people's cultures. Black people aren't creative, unique or original as we claim. We're a product of products, and the same goes for "rap battles"

Granted not everyone can be classified into these racial groups, but they're racial groups for a reason: because most people consisting of of said group define it.

To DJMacIntoshFoShizzle: it isn't about "laying claim to "Rap" it's about reclaiming a tradition. Black people did not invent this rap battle thing that we so feverishly defend originating.

Watch tv where you see white people rapping. Consider a few years ago when a big white rapper came into the scene (Eminem for example). There is more criticism toward a white guy being where he didn't belong than anything at first. Were the Scots all over blacks for stealing their multi-centry old tradition? No, because they weren't as up their own asses as black people are today.

January 9, 2009 at 4:43 p.m.

you need to read more

The tradition of rhyming, joking, and storytelling to a rhythm is INDEED directly traced to the west African tradition of the "bard" or "griot." The aesthetics of hip hop are pure Jamaican... Kool Herc indeed. Stephon Johnson got it right.

"S--t talking is universal"

Well done.

January 26, 2009 at 4:42 p.m.

Logic

The argument being posed by the professor is this: Although West African bards obviously played a large role in the lyrical traditions that later became hip-hop, The Scottish "flyting" also undoubtedly reinforced the tradition.

February 15, 2009 at 1:44 a.m.

shawm

Goonski...Thank you.