Guns N' Roses may sue the pants off Chinese Democracy leaker

Yesterday when I made a remark about Axl Rose suing the Chinese Democracy leaker for emotional turmoil, I merely thought I was joking. As it turns out, the future financial well being of Kevin Cogill may depend on whether Guns N' Roses is upset enough over the leak to pursue civil copyright infringement charges. Wired's Listening Post blog reports that while Cogill's chances of facing extensive jail time or fines from the criminal charges are minimal, in terms of a civil case filed by Rose and the band, he could face a much more likely sentencing of up to $1.3 million in damages.

 

According to entertainment lawyer Howard Rubin, "The first release is always the one that's going to get the most profit for the person who owns the copyright. To take that first opportunity from someone is more serious, and is usually pursued criminally to try to prevent that (from happening again)." Some estimate that the damages from the leak could be as much as $150,000 per song, and with 9 songs leaked, the $1.3 million figure is a ballpark estimate.

 

The question of Guns N' Roses end is what the fan reaction we'll be if they pursue civil charges. On the one hand, they don't want to be perceived as "the next Metallica" and sticklers of a policy unpopular with fans. On the other hand, the band did suffer significant financial damages from the leak, and it's entirely within Guns N' Roses' rights to pursue legal action.

 

My guess is the band will determine that the bad publicity from a lawsuit would not be enough to make up for the loss in revenue, and will go through with the civil case. Of course, timing will everything, and whether or not Chinese Democracy is well-received may be a factor. Certainly it would look much worse to bankrupt someone for leaking a bad album that people waiting nearly 20 years to see.

Posted in: GUNS N' ROSES
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22 Responses

August 28, 2008 at 4:44 p.m.

I'm going to download this album illegally just to spite the band. f em.

August 28, 2008 at 5:05 p.m.

Might as well sue, it is the only way they are going to make money of the album.

August 28, 2008 at 5:05 p.m.

When is our society (mainly the RIAA/MPAA) going to realize that the entire concept of "Intellectual Property Rights" is a friggen joke?
They (RIAA) can't and will never stop everybody from sharing music nor can they lock "everybody" up that performs this act so I say to the RIAA/MPAA - If it's in digital format, it will be shared - GET OVER IT!

August 28, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.

I think that people are always looking for freebies, which is fine as long as noone is hurt. But we have to remember that this is their source of income.They might be
rich right now but if this keeps happening then they end up broke, right? I would want to get paid for my work, I know that for sure.

August 28, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.

If you look at how fans turned on Metallica and Prince when they went after the fans for copyright related issues, it seems like it just hurts everyone involved. Axl Rose has been losing fans year after year. GNR can RIP if they start attacking the media or fans with their lawyers.

August 28, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.

How do they figure that one song leaking costs GnR $150k? The album isn't even for sale, what money have they lost? That's like saying "you might have murdered 20 people, so here's the death penalty" after you purchase a machine gun.

August 28, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.

Chinese Democracy... what a terrible album name.

The album like Democracy in China is not going to happen

August 28, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.

GNR sucks anyway!

August 28, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.

guns and who? I thought these old guys died in a plane crash. hard to play guitar in a rocking chair...

August 28, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.

Hey luvwknd,

I wonder why you are so dismissive of intellectual property rights? Do you think art and music have no value? Do you think the people who are talented enough and dedicated enough to go thru whatever it takes to create great music are doing it just so you can steal it? I find it odd that people can be so spiteful towards artists and think that they are "entitled" to have any music they want for free. Perhaps we should follow your premise of intellectual property rights being a joke, by taking it a step further and saying that any labor you perform in the course of your work, whether it be intellectual or manual in nature, will also have no rights. Your boss won't have to pay you anymore for you work, so it'll be a better deal for him. If you happen to be self-employed, then your customers will not be required to pay for your services, since your "intellectual and/or manual labor rights" are from this point forward to be considered a joke.

August 28, 2008 at 5:18 p.m.

really, I am not a fat old angry washout ahole, really

August 28, 2008 at 5:23 p.m.

Information wants to be free!

August 28, 2008 at 5:23 p.m.

download it?? maybe 10 years ago when it stood a chance but fragile egos and over a decade of broken promises have soured me enough that I wouldnt waste the 15 cents it would take to burn it down.Maybe by holding this album back indefinetly Axl has finally found a way to make money on this by suing the pants off of those that download it.

August 28, 2008 at 5:31 p.m.

The record companies are the aholes here. I would gladly pay an artist 4 or 5 dollars for an album....lets cut out the greedy record company middle man

August 28, 2008 at 5:42 p.m.

@mcj3691

You're wasting your time. The

August 28, 2008 at 5:57 p.m.

Even if Axel/GNR/the label pursued and won a lawsuit, it wouldn't really do them any good financially. Cogill can't possibly be well enough to do to cover $150,000 let alone $ 1.3 million. Sure, they would collect some money, the amount would probably be insignificant.

August 28, 2008 at 6:04 p.m.

weaklid: that analogy made no sense, and you sound like an idiot.

August 28, 2008 at 6:15 p.m.

Seriously, it's a big business that employs a lot of people and you have to take that into perspective, but it is grossly flawed. Obviously a band can exist and a sustain a great life by the members without all the marketing and crap involved with the "record labels". If the songs are good and they are able to "perform", people will pay to see them in concert and all will be good. Then the release of the songs does them well.

If the songs are crap and people wouldn't even want to go to their concert, then any money they "lost" from the release is basically an amount that the "record labels" were able to scam from people. The rights to scam people are protected and proliferated under the "intellectual property rights".

Lets be honest here... too many "artists" make more than they "deserve" off of this contrived and costly scamming scheme.

The RIAA and other intellectual copyright advocates, basically make their living off of inhibiting whatever freedoms they can and making you pay for it. Once I buy a song, it's mine... and if it's not, then don't make me pay for it. Apple does it with their mp3 software, sony has done it for years, and it stifles technology and progress.

Making us pay to watch advertising on TV is a similar business. I understand that an astronomical number of people are employed by these constructions, but isn't there a better way? Would art die if the artists weren't paid so much they could be recklessly indifferent? Are we even creating much art these days?

August 28, 2008 at 6:28 p.m.

Seriously, it's a big business that employs a lot of people and you have to take that into perspective, but it is grossly flawed. Obviously a band can exist and a great life can be sustained by the members without all the marketing and crap involved with the "record labels". If the songs are good and they are able to "perform", people will pay to see them in concert and all will be good. Then the release of the songs does them well.

If the songs are crap and people wouldn't even want to go to their concert, then any money they "lost" from the release is basically an amount that the "record labels" were able to scam from people. The rights to scam people are protected and proliferated under the "intellectual property rights".

Lets be honest here... too many "artists" make more than they "deserve" off of this contrived and costly scamming scheme.

The RIAA and other intellectual copyright advocates, basically make their living off of inhibiting whatever freedoms they can and making you pay for it. Once I buy a song, it's mine... and if it's not, then don't make me pay for it. Apple does it with their mp3 software, sony has done it for years, and it stifles technology and progress.

Making us pay to watch advertising on TV is a similar business. I understand that an astronomical number of people are employed by these constructions, but isn't there a better way? Would art die if the artists weren't paid so much they could be recklessly indifferent? Are we even creating much art these days?

August 29, 2008 at 11:55 a.m.

Hey mcj3691

Let's see, you listen to the radio don't you? Is that stealing? Some people listen to satellite radio which is digital content and easily stolen, but nobody seems too concerned about this practice.
What’s the difference if I record music from the radio, from cable TV, from HD radio or borrow a disc from a friend and make a copy? This is democracy and anybody that believes artists are so friggen special that we can’t touch their stuff without following all the BS laws from the 1920’s and before digital content was available is an idiot. Soon you will see and so will the RIAA/MPAA that they are fighting a never ending battle that they can’t win.
Boy, you are far less intelligent than I believed; you can’t even judge the difference between “intellectual” and “physical” property rights. The work I perform is physical not intellectual so nothing you said even applies accurately!

What’s a joke is your stupidity!

August 29, 2008 at 8:53 p.m.

luvwknd-
From your posts, it's obvious that you perform physical work and not intellectual work. Your example of listening to radio (digital or not) being the same as making a copy for playback whenever or where ever you want is ridiculous at best. That's like saying that you got a free sample of ____ from the store, so you should be able to take ____ for free whenever you want and in whatever quantities you want. You use random, hardly related elements, and twist them to fit your distorted worldview. Then you act like it is your democratic right to steal music because it is "digital" and whatnot. Hey, let's not pay authors, filmmakers, scientists, teachers, or inventors either! They use their brains, but that's not physical, so they shouldn't be compensated either. The financial elite should be cavemen who do physical things like move big rocks and hit things with clubs!

P.S. I don't much care for GNR, but they should get paid by the three people who still care about their music.

September 1, 2008 at 10:36 a.m.

seems he admitted to it 2 times in writing (one signed), go here for updated information and the real court documents:

http://www.piracyisacrime.org/In-The-Courtroom/updated-information-about-guns-n-roses-leak.html

(it might be easier just going to www.piracyisacrime.org and finding it since this site isn't accepting URL's)

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