Dave, I am a liberal arts college grad who listens to Vampire Weekend, but if you take one look at me or what I emphasize in my writing, if you think I'm a hipster you've got some strange ideas.

Just to be clear, I'm agreeing that what we think of as a hipster hasn't been new for 5 years. But what I'm saying is that the definition hasn't changed—it's that definition's relevance to the present day that has. Back in 2003, it was a new, cool thing to be a hipster. Now that it's not, people will go somewhere new to be cool.

I gave a much more reasoned explanation on my blog:

http://www.tynansanger.com/2008/11/is-hipsterism-dead-or-was-it-already.html

I think Dave was saying your definition is old, and fits too many people who would then be called hipsters.

You're arguing the definition is the same, but people are changing, which to me, seems like exactly the same argument.

And btw, self-plugging your blog is a hipster tactic as well. 

Andrew, I agree that we're basically arguing the same thing—that what was once a new, interesting description of a hipster has now been taken over by larger cultural forces and made ridiculous. What we're disagreeing over is the framework of the debate. Dave is saying that by referring to people loosely as hipsters now, the original definition of hipster loses value. He's focusing on removing the term from discussion entirely because of how the term has changed. I'm saying that the term has stayed the same, but the larger forces of society have made it a less enviable lifestyle. Did hippie have the same meaning in 1975 as it did in 1967? Of course, but it's popularity as a lifestyle choice had changed.

Here are 20 additional definitions of Hipster....

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2008/11/a_black20_news.html

The term has lost all meaning and is something completely different. It's been this way for years now.

The same way "emo" no longer means what it used to mean. Same thing with "hipster."

Just like there was "Emo Rap," now there is "Hipster Rap."

Basically it's just become a negative term to call someone that you don't like. That's how 99% of the people use the term.

Ethan- Like Dave said above, society has changed the definition of what a hipster is. Being a hipster became a negative thing at some point and at the same time people who wouldn't fit under your definition started self-identifying as hipsters. 

I think you're spinning wheels by contending that the definition remains the same, when no one really agreed on what makes a hipster, leaving the definition open to re-interpretation (like the negative conotations, self-identifying).

Definitely not new or cool in 2003. That was the year the Hipster Handbook came out, I think, which marked the death of hipsterism as cool (or "deck," or whatever they called it). Or, rather, it marked the birth of "hipster" as it exists today. You have to go back a few more years to find the "respectable" state of the hipster.

Ethan, is your contention essentially the same as saying "blink-182 isn't punk"? Just out of curiosity, what's an analogous statement that's related to "hipster"? (If that's not your contention, apologies.)

Brandon, you've gotten closer to my definition. 2003 may be too late, but considering my age, that's when I first became aware of it. You could make a case that it started with Pavement, but I wasn't old enough in the 90s to experience it. What I am saying is that today we still use Yuppie, punk, hippie, beatnik, and flapper with specific ideas in mind.Eeven though those types aren't widespread anymore, we still know all the traits associated with those lifestyles. I'm saying that the hipster is this decade's hippie or punk; it has a look, history, and cultural reference points that we can all identify, even if we can no longer identify what the history is.

Andrew- I think one of the confusing things about the contemporary usage of the term hipster is that the term itself has had other meanings in the past (Norman Mailer's The White Negro, etc.). Maybe in 10-20 years another term will emerge in retrospect. But what I'm saying is that way we use hipster now has universally definable qualities. The idea of a hipster now easier to define than whether any individual is a hipster or not.

What I've been arguing is that people don't use the term "hipster" the way Ethan is using it and this has been the case for years. I think it's similar to what happened to the term "emo." Using the term "emo" now, 99% of people are going to think I'm talking about kids who listen to My Chemical Romance with long black bangs and tight jeans.

Now way man. emo is American Football!  It's always a Fall favorite.

-there is no correlation between football being mentioned in my last 2 posts. purely coincidental